What must I believe to be saved?
Both Timothy Davis and Custard have posted in connection with this question. The issue is simply `what must I believe to be saved?' or `what propositions are (part of) the object of saving faith?'. My inclination is to say that one must believe, or be prepared to believe,
Or is it too much? Would it rule out people that we might want to be saved, such as the heroes of the Old Testament, the penitent thief on the cross, the woman Jesus met that had haemorrhagic bleeding, or the mentally ill.
One must rule out (must one not?) from being Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Unitarians (e.g. John Biddle).
It's a separate question whether there is anything more to faith than belief in propositions. James 2:19 might seem to suggest that there is. Gordon Clark disagrees with this interpretation in his What Is Saving Faith? and Saving Faith, as does John Robbins in his What Is Faith? Some suggest that one proposition belief in which distinguishes us from the demons is 'Jesus died for me' -- but is it not possible that some non-Christian might wrongly think that Jesus died for everyone and, therefore, for him or her, whether or not he or she had repentance and faith? I'm inclined to the view that there must be something non-propositional, trust, involved as well. But is that sufficient by itself? I think not, as Mormons and JWs claim to trust Christ.
- the doctrine of the Trinity (that there are three divine persons in one divine substance)
- the doctrine of the Incarnation (that the second divine person became human).
Or is it too much? Would it rule out people that we might want to be saved, such as the heroes of the Old Testament, the penitent thief on the cross, the woman Jesus met that had haemorrhagic bleeding, or the mentally ill.
One must rule out (must one not?) from being Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Unitarians (e.g. John Biddle).
It's a separate question whether there is anything more to faith than belief in propositions. James 2:19 might seem to suggest that there is. Gordon Clark disagrees with this interpretation in his What Is Saving Faith? and Saving Faith, as does John Robbins in his What Is Faith? Some suggest that one proposition belief in which distinguishes us from the demons is 'Jesus died for me' -- but is it not possible that some non-Christian might wrongly think that Jesus died for everyone and, therefore, for him or her, whether or not he or she had repentance and faith? I'm inclined to the view that there must be something non-propositional, trust, involved as well. But is that sufficient by itself? I think not, as Mormons and JWs claim to trust Christ.
posted by Daniel Hill | 8/21/2006 12:41:00 pm
5 Comments:
As stated in my blog, saving faith involves both trusting in persons (God and Christ) and believing propositions about those persons and their work.
Do we really need to believe or trust propositions about a person, to believe or trust that person? I guess that I need to believe or trust the proposition that Andy Shedden is my father. But, did I do this before or after I believed and trusted Andy Shedden in the role of being my father?
Basically, we don't need to go beyond 1Cor15:1-11, do we? I guess the situation before the human life of Jesus is tricky, but I suggest that we don't need to think about that unduly. I wonder if your mention of JW's, Mormons, etc, comes down to certain additions or denials on their part rather than some special belief/practice that Christians hold?
I suspect this is the most difficult dogmatic question so far, and it is easily the most important one. If we get this one wrong, we get everything wrong.
Keep thinking for us, Daniel!
I'd be inclined to say that we need believe no more than it takes for us to trust.
How much that is (e.g. about the divinity of Christ, Trinity, etc) is a difficult question. I'm glad it's God who's sorting this all out.
I think there has to be more than just a intellectual agreement towards belief.
Paul says with the heart we believe and the mouth we must confess Jesus is Lord.
There needs to be a spiritual reawakening where the Holy Spirit breathes life into our own spirit binding us to the Trinity.
I believe that if we just believe the propositional truth and think thats nice without a heart changing encounter with God then its not true salvation.
Also what do we make of those whose intellect will not let them follow the various arguments about the atonement and doctrine. Whether it be through accident, sickness, old age or other take dementia for instance - if they suddenly stop knowing and remembering propositional truth do they lose their salvation? I would argue NO!
Nice post.
How many propositions did the thief on the cross have, the one to whom Jesus said "Today you shall be with me in paradise"?
Surely, also, there is given a chance of post mortum repentence?
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